Is the CALVINISM debate important?

“Predestined to adoption” Calvinists take this to mean “certain lost people are chosen unconditionally to be made into believers so that they will be adopted” We disagree. We believe Paul is saying that the faithful in Him have been destined beforehand to be adopted. Adoption is a future hope for believers in Paul’s mind (Rom 8:23). We know that we, believers, will be adopted because God has destined all who believe to that end.

Dr. Flowers, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate what you do. Ten years ago, I was a BRAND new baby Christian. I had not yet established a solid Biblical understanding and didn’t really understand a lot of what I read in Scripture. I didn’t have a lot of believers around me until I found a church.I came across the verses that seemed to point to predestination of salvation and coming from a family of non-believers, I was confused about what this meant for my lost loved ones. Did God choose to save me but my siblings were possibly created for destruction from the beginning of time? I didn’t understand the verses I was reading and when I asked other about it, I couldn’t find an answer that really satisfied as they didn’t really address the texts. It was generally along the lines of, “God is a gentleman. He will never force Himself on anyone”. That is great but didn’t really address the texts I was struggling with. It seemed that my questions were pushed aside as nonsense. Fast forward a few months and I was on a drive to kill time. I came across a book store called “Monergism”. It said it was a Christian book store and I didn’t even have the wisdom to question the name of the store. I walked in and the owner of the shop asked me if I was interested in a particular topic. I mentioned that I was trying to understand Romans 9. I had NO idea what a Calvinist was or what kind of shop I had walked into. He then told me that God elected some to salvation and some to damnation and that we do not have free will. He said that this was God’s mercy as he did not have to save anyone. He then gave me a book called Chosen For Life. I cannot tell you the tailspin that this put me into as a new believer. It led me to questioning my faith, nearly walking away, questioning the character of God, and the love of God. Over the last ten years, I finished nursing school, got married, had children, and have been a member of a solid church where I have grown and come to a much deeper understanding of God. However, the issue of Calvinism has always been there and I have never known how to truly view God and His will/salvation. During this quarantine it has become clear to me that I need to deal with this doctrine and make a decision about where I stand on this issue. I have listened to James White, R.C. Sproul, John Piper, and others. I have also listened to Norm Geisler, Mike Winger, and you. I can’t express what it means to me to see a solid exegesis of the texts that I have struggled to understand. Thank you for helping me along this journey of understanding our God.

I am weary of this debate. Thirty-five-years weary. I can't take it any more. I am walking away from the debate, because one must be careful lest one gives more attention to the debate than to Jesus and one's walk with Him. HOW I became a christian is not near as important as the fact that I AM a christian. In other words, how I got here pales in comparison to the fact that I am here. I support Dr. Flowers not only in my prayers, but I give a small monthly donation as well. I fully appreciate everything he does for those who are still struggling with this issue. Dr. Flowers, you are the one God used to set me free from the chains of Calvinism so I could walk away to spend my last years with the One Whom the debate is all about. His name is Jesus.

You are doing a great work, Dr. Flowers! Keep it up and God will help you. 🙏🙏

Wow, very interesting! I am a former attendee to Bethlehem Baptist. And a big fan of Derek Webb as well. Just learned he is an atheist now. I guess I am not surprised. The same thing happened to me. I actually left Piper because I thought he wasn't consistent enough in his calvinism, and joined up with the more hard line calvinist that came out and admitted that there was no real offer of salvation to the non elect, and that God hates those not chosen. Made a lot more sense to me than piper's two wills of god or what ever. Plus I hated piper's challenge that it wasnt enough to just believe the gospel, you had to LOVE the god of this gospel, and I honestly could not find love in my heart. Fear? Yes! Respect? Maybe, but no love, as much as I tried. Of course that led me to doubt I was saved or even chosen. No one is more miserable than a calvinist who suspects he is predestined to damnation! I finally broke and had to get out and away! I tried studying more different theology, but the nagging doubts and fear continued. I finally gaVe up and embraced unbelief. For a couple years it was a great relief. But I got sick of filling my life with stuff, both good and bad, but it was never fulfilling. I have since come back to Christ, but not calvinism! I trust in a much more Christ like God now, and no longer need to worry about if He loves me or not. I hope Derek will find the true loving God someday, and believe he will! Thanks again for this video. -Michael Thompson

My struggle is that through the COVID nonsense, my wife and I ended up strict Calvinistic church because they were the only ones open to mask free, social distance free, no pre-registration required, which we so appreciated, but now we are under a 'non stop' postmill, Calvinistic interpretation as the 'only' correct view. Our hearts are braking because there are literally no other churches open without the COVID nonsense. Please pray for us as we are considering moving 2000 miles away to find a non-calvinistic preaching church.

love your perspective and your logic...you go bro‼️ You really helped my turning from calvinism...blessings to you

I will never understand the minds of Calvinists 😔 I can say for a fact, that before I got saved, I WAS searching for God, for several years, wondering how can I truly know Him and have fellowship with Him? How does God in Heaven really know me? I wasn’t a depraved person to the point that I didn’t search for Him! I knew I was a sinner bound for hell, but I couldn’t figure out how to rectify this… I was raised Catholic which made things harder because we didn’t read from the Bible, it wasn’t encouraged.. and we could never know if we’d make it to Heaven… but of course there was “purgatory” for Catholics to fall back on. So if we didn’t make it to confession after sinning (and doing penance), we were bound for purgatory (which I don’t think I ever trusted that… hence, I knew I was going to hell). Thank you Leighton for fighting the good fight!🙌🏻🙏🏻

Praise God for you Leighton Flowers and men like you who can stand up to this doctrine. Ive got your book and read Ken Wilson's book in full. It simply validated my intuitions when I first heard calvinistic doctrine. I couldn't believe Christians actually believed what it taught, I wrestled with it when I was struggling with depression, the Calvinists interpretation would pop in my head when I came to certain verses in Proverbs and Matthew. It simply made my depression worse, why would God choose me and not my family? If He determines everything including sin, then was it His fault that I was depressed? Ken Wilsons work won't only help intellectual Christians but it will help Christians struggling with psychological despair because of this abhorrent doctrine based on the gnostic doctrines of men. I went to a Reformed college last year and failed sadly, but the theological class i was in did everything you teach on this podcast. They strawman Arminianism and act like those are the only two choices. We read both sides of the debate on baptism but didn't read a single book or article on Arminianism. I'm sure the men who teach there are Godly and well intentioned men, my theology teacher was passionate and worked hard for us, but this doctrine has this pull on intellectuals, something that draws them into this idea of the "elect". I noticed that after claiming Arminians are semi pelagian, we also learned that Christians who believe we ought not to drink alcohol are gnostics because they can not enjoy Gods created order. How ironic that it is the reformed side of theology that is imbedded in gnostic beliefs. Your work and Dallas Willards work on the Kingdom of God and Spiritual disciplines have radically freed me in my theology. Now I'm unashamed to be affectionate with Him in prayer and not afraid of Calvinists in-doctrinaire tactics with the word play and intellectual isolationism.

More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that Calvinism is basically just 'Christianity' for Narcissists.

"what we ought to do is get on our knees and cry out for our hearts to be opened." could the contradiction not be clearer? Piper (and calvinism/determinism) teaches that God alone can do this work in man, yet via freudian slip he implies that man is able to, that man ought to. Another great video Dr. Flowers, thank you for further solidifying my conviction that calvinism is false and yes, dangerous. My heart broke as well seeing that derek webb clip. Perfect support for why this debate is important. satan has deceived so many.

I always struggled with Calvinism in the sense that what if I just THINK I am saved and THINK I’m following Christ but there’s still the chance I’m not elect but just delusional. What if it’s all in vain because I’m not elect and have no ability to be saved. I thought that the fact that sin still dwells in me was proof that I can’t be elect because I still have anger sometimes, I still have unforgiveness in my heart. I still struggle with laziness some days. I thought it meant I’m unsavable and God has rejected me even though I fully believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. It seemed like no matter what I do or say I am inherently unlovable and unsavable and no matter what I say or do I can never have any form of assurance of salvation to know if I’m living rightly or not or to know if I even believe in the correct Jesus. Every time I’d ask questions in the comment section I get attacked about how dumb I am and just don’t understand Calvinism. NO KIDDING that’s why I’m asking! I still don’t have all the answers but I’ll never stop looking to scriptures to see His face. I’m grateful for this channel. Thank you for bringing clarity.

Amen. We are elect in Him through faith.

God bless you Dr Flowers. Your channel is such a blessing to me.

Praise God for Leighton Flowers! From another former hardcore 5 point Calvinist. These teaching sessions have resulted in an even deeper love for my God than previously possessed. It has been an eyeopener to come to the realization how I had been diminishing the love and character of a holy God. Sadly, I had been indoctrinated by MacArthur, Piper and Sproul since becoming a believer at the age of 46 in 2014.

It's important because when you teach kids that God only wants to save a few people, merely to stroke his own ego, and all the rest have no hope - which kids are smart enough to figure out, no matter how many layers of sophistry you wrap Calvinism in - then you're going to end up with a few kids who become convinced they were not chosen, and give up. That's what happened to me, and I have never in my entire existence felt so alone.

I've had friends leave the faith because of their calvinism. Deciding that if they die and go to hell then that was just gods choice and therefore had no real reason to believe.

You’ve explained this so well, Dr. Flowers! I am always so amazed and proud. So happy to have found your podcast. I specially appreciate your humbleness and your ability to debate respectfully. Thank you!

John says God is love. Calvanism calls John a liar.

God bless you Leighton !!!!!!!