ICF vs SIPs vs Framing - Pros and Cons

I am an ICF exclusive builder, who has used it all. I was raised in a family of custom home builders - all using the traditional method. We tried adopting SIPS, but found that it wasn't the easiest to work with, however the overall build was much better than traditional methods. Then we started to use ICF... WOW. I'm a civil engineer by study, and this stuff impressed the heck out of me. You cannot beat the user-friendliness, ease of construction, air tightness, strength, sound barrier, etc. I decided to start a business only doing ICF, as that's how strongly I believe in the product. I've also used almost all the brands out there, and in my opinion, the superior one is Integra Spec. For its ease of use and minimal waste especially when compared to other ICF brands. Not only is it 100% recycled material, but it keeps much more waste out of the landfills (or you can look at it that we're not throwing the clients money in the landfill either...)

Speaking as an architect, I feel like I should get an AIA continuing education credit after watching this video.

Great presentation, as always! Just some personal observations and added info on the SIPS. I am a timber framer so I use SIPS above grade for most of my builds, and conventional foundation or ICF below grade. Some projects will be ICF to the top of the exterior walls, with timber frame trusses for the roof structure, and SIPS panels for the roof enclosure. 1) One of the most common concerns I hear from the trades about SIPS is that the electrician expects the wiring to be difficult or restrictive. (And the sheetrock installers and plumbers have concerns about the timber frame, but that's another subject.) There are a few types of SIPS, and they are good for different situations. EPS (white polystyrene) and XPS (extruded polystyrene - pink board) SIPS are glued up from flat sheets, and the way the layers are built leaves a void or chase in known position within the panel, generally at 2 ft intervals. So the easiest electrical layout is to place outlets and switches at these locations. The first time is tricky, but it gets pretty easy to router the box opening and fish the Romex through the panels. You can also easily router to a point not where the chase is, as long as the cuts you make are not more than about 1/3 of the panel size in either dimension so as not to lose the panel's structural capacity. BUT when you use SIPS on a timber frame, they are not acting as a load-bearing structural wall to support vertical load -- the timber frame does that. They are acting as a shear wall, so in fact only a fraction of the SIPS shear capacity is being used. That means that, as long as engineering OKs the location, you might even be able to cut straight across a panel without compromising anything. We sometimes specify non-structural SIPS (maybe they're IPS?) for timber frames, where there's OSB on one side and a finish surface like sheetrock or pre-installed T&G on the other. Another alternative is to use polyurethane foamed SIPS, less common, but they can have the electrical conduit and boxes preinstalled exactly where needed. Again, last-minute changes can be made with a router, if necessary, under some limits. This will work better in jurisdictions (like Chicago) that do not allow Romex and require all wiring to be in conduit. Care has to be taken when connecting panels to the floor plate and to each other that the conduit stubs line up and get properly connected - I like to install a piece of pull-line as I go to make the electrician's job easier. 2) Another point to make is about SIPS thickness, especially for roof eaves. Depending on the type -- EPS, XPS or PU -- achieving the R value for the roof may result in an unpleasantly thick roof eave thickness, especially if it's plumb-cut. To exceed R-49, you need a 12-1/4" EPS panel (and a bit of extra... that's just R-44) OR an 10-1/2" XPS panel OR an 8-1/4" PU panel. Plumb cut, the 12-1/4 and 10-/12" panels can be too thick. It's possible to make these end at the wall plane and build out the eaves with stick framing. It's also possible to order the EPS and XPS SIPS with either voids for, or preinstalled, 2x material lookouts. That's a bit of extra work. While the insulation is not doing any work out there, the PU SIPS can just run out full length past the wall and it's structurally OK for up to 24" and requires some bracing if longer. The tradeoff is the added cost of SIPS material versus the added labor of building the eaves separately. 3) I have done EPS SIPS installations with 4 x 8 blank SIPS panels site cut etc. and while it can be cheaper, and for some hard-to-get-to sites might be the only way to transport the panels there, it is *messy*. I don't think the client appreciates little bits of white styrofoam blowing about the property. It's not like sawdust or other construction debris. So I don't like to do even site-cut window and door openings on large panels anymore. I lean towards having full-sized pre-cut, pre-blocked panels made, even if it means a day or two of crane work or a big telehandler. The interior electrical work-created foam bits are easier to contain and keep clean. 4) You had a presentation about slab versus pier foundations. One low-cost option that is interesting for cold climates is to build a pier foundation on poured concrete piers or helical piles, connected by beams. I have used this with the pier locations also acting as the point load support for the timber frame posts. The exterior SIPS are then acting as simply insulation and shear wall, not bearing wall.  So how does this relate to SIPS? Well, you can span between the lower part of the pier-to-pier beams with SIPS for a sufficient insulation value, with enough space left above for plumbing, electrical etc. A weather-proof, pest-proof panel (e.g. fiber-cement board) is preinstalled on the floor SIPS before they are dropped into place. There is a waterproof, airtight flexible gasket placed on the strips that support the SIPS. And a debris/critter screen may be installed around the perimeter, for example: perforated Corten steel sheet. Far less use of concrete, and no residual humidity issues inside from the concrete slab curing (which is why so many of the concrete slab/basement homes have initial high humidity problems). I'm just starting a project like this in Michigan.

I live in a 10" thick SIP house that is 23 years old here in Arizona, absolutely love it. Low ac bill, well sealed, also fiberglass R values drop with temperature, polystyrene and other sip material does not. Desert climate here so no humidity issues. Very quiet inside too. I will say it's so well sealed, CO2 levels and poor air quality can be an issue. I'd recommend builders install a central whole house fan for air quality, fresh air turnover. The previous owners let the roof go bad and it leaked, one wall rotting the inner OSB out, however the repairs were relatively easy to reglue new OSB and sheetrock over. Hanging pictures on exterior walls is super easy. the electrical outlet and lighting placement was not well though out on this construction. I would like to expand the house with an addition but finding a contractor to do it right or even want to is hard. I may have to do it myself.

Thank you Matt for being on the forefront of leading the way to building smarter and better.

Hey mate, did a 4000 sqft walkout basement in ICF Foxblock. Loved it! Expensive, but ended up a lovely home. Self taught, did a 52x32 shop 1st to cut my teeth on, I'm not a builder but very mechanical and good with my hands. Engine builder and truck driver by trade. Built said house in Missouri, I was owner builder, did all ICF myself successfully, the now owners love the place! Love your channel, very informative! Getting ready to build again, some kind of modest shop home on a slab, probably with radiant floor heating. Will continue following, thanks. Wyatt.

I replaced the foundation on my 100+ year old house using an ICF with this twist: We formed the walls traditionally with 8 foot vertical 3/4" MDO forms and snap ties, but we put the ICF panels on the inside form only. Then buttoned up the outside panel and pumped in the concrete. The end result was a concrete exterior wall (easy to seal), and 2" of foam and screw strips on the inside. The inside MDO panels came off clean as new and the exterior panels were scraped clean and re-used. Did about 20 feet of wall at a time, footing first and then the wall, marching the panels around the perimeter and removing old wall as we went. Only had to jack up the house in 20 foot sections (about 1/8" at a time). End result is a fantastic dry basement with sheetrock on the walls. It's been 20 years now and not a single problem. 55 yards of concrete, 2000 lb of #4 rebar, and roughly half the needed ICF for a complete wall.

I built my home with Zip insulated walls, Zip roof deck, Advantech flooring. I also used Aero Barrier for air sealing. Added extra earthquake tie downs. I feel I have the best built to last home in my community.

I bought an iCF house in Montana, and it's amazingly efficient. 3400 square feet of livable space, and our gas bill last February was only $93.

I built an ICF house 21 years ago and love it. It is amazingly quiet and comfortable.

Regarding termites and ICF or any other construction material. Being in the pest control industry in Texas for the past 19 years we learned years ago about Bora-Care products. We used it exclusively on new construction builds due to its long term performance and being a safe natural product as well. Once the treated surface is enclosed and protected from UV light you have a lifetime protection basically. For ICF spray exterior walls two feet up from grade and spray foundation coating surfaces well. As added protection in ICF spray rafter over wall and two foot out from wall, including eave material. Since foundations are exposed retreat that area again per label. Great solve for issue. I am surprised manufacturers of the foam block have not mixed in borates in mixture to resolve the issue. This would be a permanent and effective fix.

I am a Registered Designer in New Zealand with 35 Year worth of experience. I liked your presentation, in that you explain the pros & Cons, you are not just a sponsors salesman. :-)

Man I love the way you do products overviews it’s helped me so much in my business, because when someone asks what do you recommend I have five different options for them to chose from, thanks once again Matt

As a General years ago, I went through a manufacturer's training and installed a 12' daylight basement foundation with ICF. Beautiful, solid system. A friend contracted in SIP construction company with fab facility that is now a conventional stud-framed panelizing business. I've designed homes in SIP and ICF, one utilized both systems and it is very efficient.

Great video Matt, very informative. I feel like I have been doing exactly what you mentioned by applying the pros of the other systems to traditional framing. I am doing my apprenticeship through a carpentry outfit in central BC Canada. We specialize in building energy efficient houses, as well as pride ourselves in building the first “Net Zero Ready” houses in BC. This house has and icf foundation, with traditional framing components throughout the rest of the house. Our exterior walls are made of 2x6 walls with blown insulation. On the exterior side we used a foam product called halo exterior that was 2” thick, and interra on the inside that is 1.5” thick. The entire house is heated solely by a heated concrete slab in the basement and main floor. Much like the SIP’s product most of our houses are pre assembled in a factory and arrive in panels that we set on site. We have also done a prairie wall system that we hand framed. It consists of two 2x4 walls spaced 2” apart with the studs offset to eachother and tied together at the top with plywood giving us a total of 9” of Blown insulation. I believe that with this house in particular we used a special vapour barrier paint instead of poly of the interior side. I’d love to hear your thoughts Matt, take care!

My dad had our family home built out of ICF on Vancouver island about 20 years ago now, it was the first in the area and no builder had done ICF, but he was particular to have it done. Fabulous building.

Thank you for this unique and useful dissertation, with pros and cons, of framing methods. The huge warning on the need for waterproofing of traditional framed construction is most appreciated. Countless tutorials teach framing, and installation, and waterproofing, without stressing the fundamental weakness of the traditional framing paradigm, itself. That is, a traditional framed house hides a lot of sins, but they can accumulate to "get you"!

I have built 2 ICF homes, and put gauge steel trusses on them (and metal shingles on top of that). You have to be careful with insulation levels in the attic, but free span trusses means you can dry in the structure without putting up interior walls. I've been very happy with it. But if I ever need to change something on an outside wall, Matt is not wrong about the trouble I'm in. Interior sound levels are still very good, as are utility bills (I'm usually at half of what my friends are with wood frame houses). The other thing Matt does not mention is that bricks go very well on the outside of ICFs.

I am a contractor in the extreme northeast, Maine coast! I've built all of these examples. I don't agree with your assessment of sips or traditional framing. the cost of spray foam in traditional framing is the cost of sip panels. Labor installing sips is one third that of traditional framing. Traditional framing failures in the Northeast are more common than you admit (or have knowledge of) pink insulation and traditional framing is a recipe for rot and mold, as well as air infiltration issues. I have never built a Bensonwood house...I have sworn to never build traditional again, but I WOULD do a Bensonwood house. building sip homes I have built panel over frame and have built hybrid "48 on center framing construction. I HAVE experienced the air leak problem...it's called "tea kettling" when the moist hot air leaks out the house looks like it a steaming tea kettle from the outside. THIS IS SUPER DESTRUCTIVE! I am a super fan of your show and your experience, your humility is a perfect example of how contractors should address their mistakes. You are an example for all of us. I am super interested in using the spray on vapor barriers you have highlighted on your show. They would be an excellent compliment to sip panel construction. I wish I could express myself better than leaving this comment. Anyway thank you for your show. also I buy my sips from "foam laminates of Vermont"

The 1st type of house you talked about, the concrete/Styrofoam.. The home I lived in during my childhood back in the 80s was made this way. It was in Melbourne, FL I'm not sure who built it but it was supposed to be an experimental design. The walls were very thick and it had built in shutters and a flat concrete roof. Hurricanes couldn't touch it an=d was easy on the electric bill in the summer. On the down side, we had a fire and because the heat was trapped inside the fire couldn't really spread into the house much but it damaged a lot of stuff inside just due to the heat. However the house survived the fire that would have burnt a normal house to the ground. Ours was plaster/Styrofoam/concrete/Styrofoam/plaster so very thick walls..