How the Microbiome Affects your Health & Ways to Optimise it | Drs. Sonnenburgs | The Proof EP 202

Published 2022-04-25
In Episode 202 I’m joined by Drs Erica and Justin Sonnenburg to learn more about microbes and the gut microbiome.

Research into the human microbiome is a fascinating and rapidly developing field, with new studies constantly being published. This week’s guests are notably accomplished researchers on this topic and bring a wealth of knowledge to the table.

Erica and Justin Sonnenburg, both PhD, are researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine and authors of The Good Gut. Their work has been published in some of the top journals, including Cell, Science, and Nature. Justin has previously featured in Episode 191 of the show, and today Erica makes her debut on The Proof.

This episode, we recap (or introduce for new listeners) what microbes are and what the microbiome is. Then we dive into a more in-depth conversation about evolution and the microbiome, the impacts of industrialisation on the gut, and what inflammation really means for human health. You’ll learn about probiotics; microbiome diversity; the relationship between microbiota and disease; how low-fibre, animal-based diets effect the gut; and more.

Specifically, we cover:

0:00 Intro
2:42 Fasting & Gut Health
7:06 What the Microbiome is
14:47 Studying the Microbiome
19:00 Healthy vs Industrialized Microbiome
28:55 Inflammation
46:39 Food & Restoring Diversity
1:04:25 Elimination diets
1:15:39 Healing your own Microbiome
1:36:04 Gluten & Lectins
1:42:13 Lifestyle Changes
1:45:42 Outro

Whether you’re well versed in the gut microbiome or are hearing about it for the first time, there’s lots to learn in this episode. Drs Erica and Justin do an excellent and eloquent job of outlining the basics and expanding into more specific, complex components.

To learn more from the Drs Sonnenburg, you can access the Sonnenburg Lab website: (sonnenburglab.stanford.edu/
read their book, The Good Gut: sonnenburglab.stanford.edu/press.html)
and connect with Justin on Twitter: twitter.com/GutBugs2

You can also listen to Dr Justin in Episode 191: theproof.com/fermented-foods-fibre-and-immunity-wi…
and see below for resources and more.

Thank you to The Proof partner Eimele Essential 8 for making this episode possible. Eimele Essential 8 is a multi-nutrient designed to cover all bases for plant-predominant eaters; it is a product I helped formulate and take every day. For 5% off, head to theproof.com/friends

When approaching a topic as complex as the gut microbiome, there’s always more to learn. I hope that you find this episode informative and illuminating.

Enjoy, friends.

Simon

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Additional resources

- Erica Sonnenburg’s Stanford Medicine talk:    • Diet as a Lever to Improve Your Micro...  
- Sonnenburg Lab collaboration study: linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S009286742100… with Christopher Gardner on fibre, fermented foods, and the immune system
- Justin Sonnenburg’s publications: scholar.google.com/citations?user=B2A2QvUAAAAJ&hl=… on Google Scholar
- Sonnenburg Lab webpage: sonnenburglab.stanford.edu/
- Sonnenburg Lab Twitter: twitter.com/labsonnenburg
- Book, The Good Gut: sonnenburglab.stanford.edu/press.html
- “The ancestral and industrialized gut microbiota and implications for human health”: www.nature.com/articles/s41579-019-0191-8
- “Starving our Microbial Self: The Deleterious Consequences of a Diet Deficient in Microbiota-Accessible Carbohydrates”: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413…)
- “Gut-microbiota-targeted diets modulate human immune status” pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34256014/

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All Comments (21)
  • @azdazd9353
    My anxiety disappeared after I started eating fermented foods, especially homemade sauerkraut, and fiber.
  • I'm catching up on some of these conversations, and I am usually glad that I decided to do so. I love listening to actual scientists with a knack for good explanations, including "we don't know". Refreshing contrast to the trolls.
  • As a nutritionist I had some gut issues for sometime that I had to heal with a combination of FODMAP diet, taking minerals (especially certain cell salts), digestible clay, super green powders,etc. And it worked. Then I swung back around to whole grains( rice, quinoa, millet, ezekial bread), variety of veg. And modest amounts of animal products. No issues for the most part with digestion and it's been wonderful. My suggestion, do all you can not to end up in that stage and then if life events, etc. Occur to harm the gut environment you need to be patient and persistent.
  • @sittingfrogleg
    Great episode! I appreciate that both scientists spoke clearly enough for us, non science lay person, to follow. Thank you for sharing.
  • @natures_child
    Thank you Simon for such a fantastic interview with Erica and Justin. As a lay person it was a great listen and very easy to understand what is a complex subject. I have been experiencing problems with my digestive system for the past 10+ years when out of the blue I developed multiple food intolerances. I was eating a plant based whole food diet with a wide diversity and over the past 5 years have had to remove so many healthy foods from my diet, which I am now trying to reintroduce using your help and advice from your amazing friend, Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. To cut a long story short, my food intolerances appear to be related to the perimenopause. I was only diagnosed with this last year and virtually every system in my body has been adversely affected. On top of that I also appear to have a rare autoimmune condition where my body is having allergic reactions to progesterone resulting in awful skin problems. I also suffer from histamine intolerance so fermented foods are going to be difficult to add to my diet, but I plan to try this by starting very low and slow . Listening to your podcasts has helped me to better understand the role that the gut microbiome plays in all aspects of our health. I am determined to get myself better using the knowledge that I have gained from podcasts such as yours and Dr. B's. In just over a month I have dramatically improved my bowel health by making small changes to my diet. Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge :)
  • I think these podcasts deserve to be in thr top level...so so informative
  • @2dc6
    Fantastic conversation and highly interesting topic that has the potential to change the way we view health and disease. Thanks for having the Sonnenburgs on your show. Would love to see them again on a future episode to learn of any new exciting updates that have occurred since this episode was taped. Thanks Simon for providing this wonderful educational resource!
  • @Healthyimmunedoc
    As infectious disease doctors, we treat sepsis and other severe infections from “healthy” gut microbes found in fermented foods. So most of us would not advocate fortifying foods with microbes. As in most things in health, how we fix a parameter is more important than actually hitting the target. Live cultures will increase food borne diseases. 48 million Americans get food borne illnesses every year. In addition, there is an elevated gastric cancer risk in people who consume fermented foods. Obviously market produce still contain plenty of microbes if one is able to make home fermented foods. w/live cultures. Host factors determine whether or not these foods are “healthy”.
  • Bravo Simon. Unlike so much uninformed nonsense available on the internet you clearly understand what wonderful scientists like the Sonnerbergs work entails and help them present their knowledge in a balanced and easy digestible way.
  • I wish your daughter a quick and full recovery and I wish you patience and faith, your comment made me think that the time may soon come when before we undergo a medical procedure, a fecal sample is saved in order to introduce it back into our system after the medical procedure wish you and your daughter all the best
  • @AdnAwd24
    Thank you so much, very informative and yours questions are well prepared, smart and practical. and thank you Drs. Sonnenburgs, this is the second podcast I listened for them, they are scientifically rigours and know the limit and how early the science of Microbiome is, without jumping to non-scientific conclusions.
  • @emilybarry9410
    Been waiting for this one! STELLAR conversations Simon and Drs Sonnenburg, 🙏 💜🤗
  • @ultimape
    Really good talk. I am loving everything coming out of Sonnenburg lab. I will be referencing this often when people ask me about gut bacteria. It annoys me how everyone in this field always neglects how there are complex carbohydrates and animal based fibers within meat. With my IBD, I've had some pretty severe reactions to plants, so I've had to figure out how to eat in a way that doesn't cause the gut inflammation. It seems like no one ever bothers to look at studies on fermented meat products (particularly fish) that are also loaded with the SCFAs that bacteria can make from plants. Collagen Peptides from animal are how I've been able to produce butyrate to prevent my Crohn's flairs, for example. This is something that we are missing in the western diet as well because we have made it illegal to sell organ meats (at least in any meaningful capacity due to FDA regulations)... And we did this effectively because bacteria love to eat them and so it rots. Stuff like this may explain aspects of the French Paradox, and why Mediterranean diets can help some people. Those diets are loaded with fresh foods of all kinds that include animal products that we simply can't buy in the west. Heck, its near impossible to find real lactofermented meats anywhere unless you do it yourself. Another thing that fibers give to bacteria is a source of nitrogen, we have studies showing that high protein can also boost gut diversity because proteins itself can act as a nitrogen source. There's a reason why high proteins foods like peanut butter and various beans end up being good sources for gut bacteria replenishment when mixed in with complex sugars and resistant starches. We don't get this in animal products in the west because everyone eats prime meat and neglects the offal.
  • @terrileeg03
    Super innovative and fascinating information. I think the best takeaway is just stick to whole plant foods and a wide variety of them. I’ve always been suspicious of probiotic supplements. I’ve saved this podcast to share and really appreciate the time stamps!
  • @educational-101
    Love the new format Simon! I've got to say, started this episode on Spotify. Then pulled up the video and eas blown away so much by it. From my personal point of view, the video was amazing as I could see the facial expressions and excitement in what they talked about. You can see the passion for their work in their faces and tone of voice. Thanks Simon 👏👏
  • @jimomalley
    Please keep up the good science, Sonnenburgs and team. I enjoy your research work and findings.
  • Always picking such quality speakers with such great information always backed by science! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
  • @marinasmith4772
    I hope the Sonnenburgs write another book! It sounds like there is new data every day.
  • Another great one. I just learned so much - and I love how they riffed off each other and kept supplying more information and ideas to your great questions. I usually listen to the podcast while I walk to work but it’s fantastic having visuals as well.