Greg Boyd - Perhaps Even God Doesn't Know the Future?

God knows the future infinitely more than he knows it precisely

This video is a clear example of seeking to understand Scripture while applying eisegesis principles. That is to say that someone first has a preconceived idea or hypothesis and then they go to the Bible to try to find a verse or verses to support their presupposition. Mr. Boyd's introduction states that "perhaps even GOD doesn't know the future?' Do you serve an uninformed god. He also states in the opening introduction that for God to not know the future "does not downgrade GOD and GOD'S omniscience for GOD not to know what cannot be known. To state that GOD is "omniscience" and yet purport that GOD "doesn't know the future" is a great example of and oxymoron. The word omniscience is defined as "to have all knowledge or to know all things". Webster's dictionary defines it as "having infinite awareness, understanding and insight". So either GOD is omniscient and therefore infinitely knows all things or he cannot be omniscient because of the things that HE does not and cannot even know. This assumption by Mr. Boyd that GOD cannot know all things would indicate that like humanity, GOD is in the dark about some things. This is an apparent attempt to define the attributes of GOD from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Since he is declaring that even an omniscient and omnipotent GOD cannot possibly know all things, this would naturally lead some to question any prophecies found in the Bible including the prophecies found in the book of Revelation. Because all prophecies deal with predicting future events which GOD can easily do and does do. Once anyone begins to question GOD'S abilities and begins to place certain limitations on GOD abilities then who determines where to stop applying these inabilities upon GOD. Who has the authority to place any limitations on our CREATOR. This was part of Paul's argument in Roman's 9. According to adherents of this "open theism" we now have the created[clay] determining what THE CREATOR[POTTER] can and can't do. Throughout the Bible you can find verses declaring that GOD is omniscient with no limitations. And that HE is omnipotent. This is what makes HIM GOD. Acts 2:23 "this man, delivered up by the predetermined plan[omnipotence] and foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD'". Now here are some verses that clearly declares GOD'S unlimited power/authority and GOD'S unlimited knowledge/omniscience that men like Mr. Boyd would completely deny even though you can read it clearly for yourself in any Bible. Ephesians 1:4-5 "just as HE chose us in HIM before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before HIM in love. He predestined us to adoption as sons through JESUS CHRIST to HIMSELF according to the kind intention of HIS will[or HIS good pleasure]". Now note the phrase "before the foundation of the world". Spin these verses as one may, here GOD HIMSELF declares that HE intentionally chose those that would be saved[omnipotent] before the world was ever created[omniscience!!! Here is another to consider. Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of THE LORD; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" Now note the order described here. That is they made their professions of faith as a result of GOD'S work of grace [Ephesians 1:1-10] in appointing them to salvation. The Gentiles were first "appointed to eternal life" and after they were "appointed" by GOD[omniscience] to eternal life" then they "believed". 1 Peter 1:1-2 "...who are chosen,[omnipotence], according to the foreknowledge[omniscience] of GOD THE FATHER,". The Bible literally has dozens of verses to support this fact that GOD is the one that initiates and carries out our salvation as HE "CALLS" us to salvation. Study it for yourselves. Get yourselves a good concordance and study up on how many times the following words appear in the Bible. Appointed, calling, called, chose, draw, draws, elect, granted, predestined, etc. Study for yourselves. Don't totally rely on some person to tell you what you need to know about the Bible. Remember!! 2 Timothy 2:15 applies to all bona-fide Christians. "Be diligent to present yourself approved to GOD as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth."

7:00 IMO the focus should not be on God's 'intelligence' alone. His omnipotence is also a component. If you face a situation where you are not only unprepared but also incapable the uncertainty carries with it a genuine risk of failure, possibly catastrophic and tragic. But this is not the case with God. God is fully prepared, and fully capable regardless of what the future holds and it presents no threat to him or his plans. That is the biggest view of God I can imagine.

I am always happy when I see a Closer To the Closer notification come through.

The Great I Am is not limited in TIME. He doesn't have past, present or future.

Very good. I agree with this view.

"And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." Genesis 22: 11,12. "And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no." Deut 8:2.

I just have to chuckle at how we try to apply our perceptions to God. The whole thought process of "God knows the FUTURE" is applying our experience INSIDE the universe that God created for us to live in. TIME is a dimension INSIDE this universe. God exists OUTSIDE the universe - so there is NO TIME dimension to God's experience. There is just IS (why God calls himself I AM). We - as humans bound by the Time dimension in this universe - cannot understand how God would percieve all the events of our existence from OUTSIDE TIME. I don't know - but I DO know that it would be radically different - and because for God there is no before and after - only NOW - his "knowing the FUTURE" is a meaningless concept. Interesting - this "open theism" concept is what I had forumulated on my own - didn't know it had a name. But I guess I'm not that smart - so I should have figured smarter people than me would have come up with this....

this is the best explanation of the abrahamic god’s omniscience i’ve heard yet. i see it as as someone watching a rat maze. one person knowing all the ways the rat could go because of their knowledge of the maze, but not knowing where the rat will choose to go.

Why quote Romans 8:28 and not the very next verse? Romans 8:29 -"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." It's my opinion that God actually knew me before the foundation of the earth, not just the "possibility" of me. No matter what, there will always be mysteries far beyond the grasp of our intellect and I don't believe this issue to be one effecting salvation. However, if you believe that your salvation is the work of God and you have assurance of that salvation, is not the scope of your will already somewhat limited? Or would the open theist just claim that there is no possibility of a true believer to turn away from and blaspheme God?

I like " it's not logically possible for god to know sth that is not yet settled."

Open theism attempts to address God’s justice in relation to human actions, an aspect which Western Classical Theism is argued to overlook by implying a lack of true autonomy. However, open theism risks diminishing God’s sovereignty by portraying Him as subordinate to time and uncertain about future outcomes

God knows everything future past present nothing escapes God's knowledge I don't think a lot of people understand that my God is all powerful

this is our lesson just today. our minds are just just finite unlike God infinite.

Perhaps God is the future!

Well said

We are having a fundamental discussion about the essential nature of God and yet no Scripture is even quoted. What I hear in all of this is a deistic type of worldview. If God is not in ultimate control it would seem there is no security, everything is dependant on me. That is frightening. And thoroughly unbiblical. Rom. 5:8-10 says that we were enemies with God, yet in His love, He sent Christ to die on our behalf to bring us back to Him. That means that we do not move towards Him on our own. Ephesians 1-3 and especially 2:8-10 speak to the reality that our faith doesn't originate with us, it is a gift from God. Jesus said in John 10 that all that the Father gives Him will never be lost. What an incredible comfort! I struggle with sin and unbelief at times, and my one comfort is not that "I can do it," but that Jesus will not let me go. I've not heard Boyd discuss this passage, but it would appear that according to this worldview, Jesus doesn't know what He is talking about. Apparently, Jesus doesn't know that there are all sorts of possibilities, so there is no way that He can know that none of His sheep will be lost. Boyd has elsewhere said that "God needs you" to pray and to act for His Kingdom. If God needs us, He is not God. At least not the biblical one true God. This is a dangerous theology.

Certainly it is probable that probability is certain therefore all is settled even if it seems as if there are probabilities because it’s already certain is Gods mind. That’s how he wants us to understand it.

6:00 The non-Calvinist sometimes claims his God is 'bigger' than John Calvin's because he does not "need" to meticulously control every molecule to accomplish his will, even though he could if he chooses. And creatures with genuine freewill pose no threat to a truly sovereign, omnipotent Creator. Ironically, however, he also fears his God would be 'smaller' if he doesn't know the future which does not yet exist. But if God is said to somehow exist outside of time, and see the future "as if" present in the 'eternal now', it must exist and therefore have been determined, and if not determined by God, then by whom? It would seem to me that a non-Calvinist being afraid to consider God may not have Exhaustive Foreknowledge of the future because it makes him somehow 'less God-like' is actually the kissing cousin to the Calvinist's argument in favor of Exhaustive Devine Determinism and their contention that God must control every molecule 24/7 or he is not God.

look at it this way. you can play a virtual reality game. there are many variations of the game . but after you unplug the game . the outcome is the same. such is life on earth. god knows about many possible fututes maybe infinite possibilities. but once the game is unplugged its back to beginning. game is put back in cabinet.