The Problem With Paragons

What changes (if any) do you hope are made to the Master Builder?

i think the main issue is that the only people getting paragons are those that are farming with the sole purpose of getting a paragon, and at that point they know exactly what paragon they want. this means that for casual players, theres no experimentation as paragons are essentially off limits in a normal game

So I actually had a chance to talk with the Lead Game Designer Rohan, and he mentioned to me and KhemoSwavey and DotTrev that they don't look at Engineer as a "Supportive" support tower, but rather a DPS tower. But definitely agree with the changes you suggest. I kind of wish Master Builder was built a little differently as well!

The idea that you proposed with the paragon traps counting towards the next paragon's pops is amazing. Another idea would be to try to fight the notion that all paragons have to be super strong in popping bloons. Since it's a support tower, maybe remove a lot of the popping power it has and focus more on the support element. Kinda like an overclock that you can use only once per round (twice at d100) but stacks infinitely. Would be a breath of fresh air if every new paragon that came out wasn't a popping machine.

The paragon trap doesnt even need to touch bads. If it did traps just combine it with navarch who can take out bads and those are probably the only 2 towers you will ever need

Feel like specifically for the boomer paragon,it should get an ability like perma charge,making it attack faster or make it so that the paragons can be maxed out with pops,since glaive lord regrow farming is the best way to get a high degree paragon

I really like the idea of letting the engineer paragon be able to get degrees for the next paragon since he is called the Master Builder

I think the paragon needs to reflect all 3 routes, still kinda mad about the engineer paragon, because now I’m worried about Druid paragon (favorite monkey is Druid, love avatar of wrath strategies)

Honestly the idea of the "paragon trap" for the engineer paragon is really smart, buffing the paragons would be too op and this is just a fun way of doing it.

Honestly I don’t mind the paragon power creep, but IMO the Engineer paragon was a huge letdown. It doesn’t feel like the paragon of a support tower in the slightest. It’s nice that it overclocks itself automatically, but couldn’t it do that for other towers in its range, since it doesn’t have global reach? What happened to the bloon trap? The cleansing foam? Also not really an issue but I also think it’s the least cool-looking paragon (say what you will about the Boomerang, but he’s got drip).

33.0 is coming with a new Paragon, Boss and further changes, however it is to keep your expectations on the neutral side as we don't know what else is coming with.

I dont play boss events anyways, paragons are something I get when I go for highest round records and so I still get hyped when new ones are announced cause theyre always fun to mess around with

My idea for the builder would be to have each of the sentries do something different, where one would keep the sentry spawning (top), one would buff towers around it while placing foam (middle) and the last would be able to place multiple XL traps around itself (bottom). That way it keeps its cool sentry concept while also meshing them into the other paths

I would really appreciate if one of the next few paragons were a much cheaper and weaker option instead of gradually getting more expensive/powerful. Add a 100-150k wizard paragon that’s good for the early tiers. I think this would really help with the power creep problem.

I saw this somewhere online where someone suggested the traps would make an explosion dealing massive damage (like the paragon sentries) after being filled

My idea for the overclock inclusion was that it has a ability that works like the techbot and allows you to max out (over loxk +ultraboost) the selected tower untill you change the thether to another tower.

I hope NK takes their time with updating Master Builder and gives him what he needs to call himself a Paragon. I want my favourite tower to be done justice, and the glorified top path with little to no support he got last month was not enough.

Very interesting topic. I believe that there is room for Ninja Kiwi to partly solve the difference in utility between some paragons through monkey knowledge. After all, there are still some unspent points every max level player has. Maybe some knowledge points could decrease the gap between the usefulness of the Boomerang paragon and the Dart Paragon, such as allowing the price of tier 5s to factor into the degree, so that Boomer isn’t stuck at degree 1 without a huge cost sink. As for power creep, I expect the Ace Paragon to push this even further given how costly and huge its tier 5s are. I think what we really need are more bosses that actually require the strengths of the other paragons. Bloonarius is the only boss that needs high pierce, and for the APM, it usually suffices; there's no need for Glaive Dominus at tier 3. The other 2 bosses, Lych and Vortex, are nothing but damage sponges asking for high single target DPS. We need more reasons for the strengths of niche paragons to matter and be useful. Vortex is the closest thing we have to that because it requires long range, but that has a problem too since it has a larger AOE than most paragons, forcing you to just use the global range attacks exclusively. It's going to be a big task to get everything just right.

I love your idea of the Master Builder trap getting sacrificed by other Paragons!

I love the Paragon Totem trap idea! Maybe they could be more effective than totems since you’d probably be getting them rather late.