WHY RYDER NEVER BETRAYED CJ & SWEET | GROVE STREET FAMILIES?

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When a game still got controversies after 18 years, u know it's a gem

I had a feeling Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. He did mention a green saber until Big Smoke change the conversation. Him mentioning the green saber was kind of a clue he was speaking the truth and another hint he was never a traitor. Unlike Big Smoke who ALWAYS avoided the conversation about CJs mom and who killed her.

It's a shame that Ryder's entire character never got fully explored. He just felt like a character unceremoniously thrown in the trash by the 2nd act.

PCP is a hard drug lol, it makes people act impulsive and think they are unstoppable. Hence Ryders missions, like robbing the national guard.

Ryder wasn’t meant to betray Grove street families. The fact that Ryder being killed off felt very odd. The last lines he had in the pier 69 felt like minor. Instead of understanding further why he decided to betray the families. Truly the beta draft would’ve had something different.

I honestly didn't want Ryder to betray us in the game, those missions we did for him, indicated that he was at least supporting Grove Street unlike Smoke but shockingly we see him reveal his true colours before leaving Los Santos....that was a huge disappointment.

The "can't stop me" line during Pier 69 was a cover up for a deleted piece of dialogue belonging to.. T-BONE. Initially it was T-bone who we had to chase, not Ryder. Also, an important thing is mentioned in the introduction of the game when Big Smoke talks about "putting a gun to a brother's head", which could imply that Lance was forced to help the Syndicate

It's clear Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. There was a financial dispute between MC Eiht (his voice actor) and Rockstar and he left during production. Notice he has little dialogue after the green sabre and is relegated to a minor character in the 2nd half of the game despite playing a large role early in the game.

He should have died in the mission Green Sabre during the gunfight part. Would have made Big Smoke’s betrayal and Tenpenny’s actions all the more devastating by having a fellow homie die on you in a repeat of Brian’s death as well as more reason to get back at Tenpenny for costing you two of your closest friends. It could have been one of the worst betrayals because unlike Vice City or IV, you actually lose a friend through it and you’re left angry at the villains for the act. One that seriously has an effect on the player from then on.

Even his death scene was underwritten. I mean come on. Are we really supposed to believe that a gangster armed with an AK-47 would just jump into the ocean and attempt to escape via boat instead of actually using the weapon? Even during the boat chase, he isn't even trying to avoid getting killed. Worst sendoff to who is one of the most iconic characters of the game.

In my head cannon, Ryder didn't betray his gang. He was always lured by Smoke to join his side, but he didn't want to be part of it. He even kept a secret from Sweet about Smoke, maybe he had some hope that Smoke will return back to the family? He only went to the Big Smoke side after CJ came back and the jealousy went over his head. He is not a traitor to the gang, he is a traitor to CJ's friendship, which is pretty sad and actually fit the storyline.

A detail overlooked is the very clip in one of the introduction cutscenes, Big Smoke is speaking to Ryder in some kind of commanding tone and this tone comes up again when Ryder was going on about the Green Sabre "yeah but people like to TALK don't they" as if he's subtly telling Ryder to shut up or your dead.

Don't forget that the cutscene where Cesar claimed Ryder tried to bang Kendl came out of nowhere since there were never even any hints Ryder was attracted to Kendl at all, let alone try to bang her. If that were true, then Kendl would have told CJ and Sweet a lot earlier than that since she told CJ that she was being insulted by the construction workers. That's why it's called "SHOW, DON'T TELL!"

I think because of the argument that happened between R* and Mc Eiht, R* wanted us to kill his in-game character. Kinda infamous but R* North has always had a harsh side. And there were time constrains, we can see the final missions part being far less developed and engaging than the first parts of the story. Big Bear had to have a major involvement here but it was scrapped due to time absence.

Big Smoke killing Ryder before or during the mission The Green Sabre would’ve made more sense than to just throw him into the plot as Big Smoke’s accomplice

Fun Fact: Ryder wasn't meant to be a traitor in the game script

Ryder betraying the familes is the most disappointing thing I've ever had to deal with in a GTA game, and as other people have stated, it didn't feel right.

It's been proven that MC Eiht is actually cool with Rockstar and no disputes. So the more possible reason is that MC Eiht was likely just simply more busy with music during the game's production and didn't have time to record further dialogue. So the developers just improvised Ryder's betrayal without thinking it through. Also, keep in mind that Ryder ditching CJ in Home Invasion is just a mission failure, which aren't canon to the actual storyline. By that logic, Sweet would be considered a coward for rolling with Big Smoke and Ryder if the player fails the Drive-by mission, or the characters you kill in missions really are dead. It's why I made a rewrite showing how keeping him loyal can work.

rider had the best scene ive never forgotten. when he robs the fast food place masked up. and the cashier says "rider? not you again" and rider responds " it ain't me fool"