Are Electric Cars Dead?

If they’re dead plug it in

I still don't know how California is going to handle this 'electric car sales only' situation when they can't even handle their own power infastructure.

Wait, you don’t have the Mercedes E Class station wagon as a plug-in hybrid in the US?? 😮

I have an EV, I like it, but I am the 1st one to confirm Doug is right.... EVs are inconvenient for apartment dwellers, Range issues for people who do Long trips, winter range penalty and people who sell cars every couple years. Sonny EV is right for me, but not for everyone

We don't need $180K electric Porsches. We need $30-40k commuters. We are not millionaires. (LOL my $150K Cayenne is so practical)

In Cali I see them everywhere. It’s the iPhone of cars now

Doug is kind of guy that tosses salad like this 8:17

There's a substantial portion of the population that can't afford to spend more than $10k on a car. There's a ton of used car options that are perfectly fine for that budget, but none of those are electric. Older electric vehicles will have expensive battery issues, and those people who could then afford to buy them won't be able to fix them.

Doug the kind of guy who decides to sell his used engine oil in the style of Belle Delphine

There are strong counter-arguments to everything Doug is saying. 1. This is a typical adoption curve for any new technology. You get a small bump of early adoptors, a lull where demand falls and then a much larger increase as the technology becomes mainstream. They literally teach this in business school. 2. The range thing: most people do not do long road trips. The example of "losing a day" while driving across the country is completely irrelevant for most people. The vast majority of driving is short trips. The average commute is about 27 minutes. EVs are ideal for this type of everyday driving. 3. It's true that you probably shouldn't buy an EV unless you can charge it at home. Still, many people can charge at home. There are lots of suburban areas with single-family homes where EVs are ideal. Apartments are going to add charging infrastructure over time. Lots of workplaces already have them, the bays at my office are full every day.

I’m glad Doug is an advocate for plug in hybrids, I really like plug in hybrids a lot

The fact that used EV values are so low is actually a net positive to a lot of people. When taking about EV adoption we focus in new car sales however we don’t take into consideration used EV adoption rates it’s not like these car are tossed in the trash. There are plenty of people that certainly can’t afford or are financially responsible enough to not buy a new car so the used EV becomes and amazing value proposition. The fact that you can get a model S plaid in the 40 is so cool for those of us that can’t afford a 100,000 dollar car. As to the cross country driving, I’ve driven from Las Vegas NV departing at 4pm est on a Sunday to Orlando Florida arriving on Tuesday at 11pm est. stopping for 10 hours each night to rest. That was 2300 miles in 2.5 days I’m happy with that.

I have both an ice vehicle and an ev. It took me some time to find the right ev, but I can say unequivocally that for me an ev is perfect. I drive a ton of daily city miles. About 2,000/month. I charge at night and have never had a problem of running out of range. I put wiper fluid, wipers and tires on my ev and love it. It fast, quiet, luxurious and I never need to change the oil or worry about things breaking. My issue with the plug in hybrids and many new mild hybrids is the likely future maintenance. My GF has a GLE 450 and it is a wonderful car. Drives nice is efficient, but I’m scared of what’s to come when the factory warranty is up. So many systems and so complicated to work on.

I feel like a major issue all new cars face, be it ICE or BEV, is how repairable and reliable these cars are long-term. I talked to a mechanic, and he said it was 2,000 dollars just to buy a new single LED headlight for a Volvo. Not including labor. I'm helping my parents' car shop, and all I can think about is all the crazy costs any potential options will have over time. Even a Toyota has so much going on. Even if 70% lasts 30 years, lots of the tech will fade or malfunction. And if damaged, like the headlights or bulbs need to be replaced, it will be far too expensive. I wonder about BEVs batteries. They don't really seem capable of lasting 25+ years. The American car fleet is older than it's ever been. Automakers are refusing to address the used market. I guess cause it doesn't make them much money. We can't afford new cars and eventually we won't be able to afford used cars. They will be worthless. Automakers seem very desperate to make consumers as anti car as possible. You can see growing trends of people criticizing how car dependent we are and how we can't afford them. It will take a long time but if automakers dont cut the crap people will demand and look for alternatives to transportation rather that cars. Automobiles are too needed to fade. But they can see their sales fall.

You make some good points Doug, and basically ALL these issues have been solved .... in China. - Where are the cheap BEVs? China - Where can you charge FAST on a road trip? China (look up how fast the new Li Mega charges, 11 minutes flat to go from 6% to 80% full) - Where are all those super fast chargers so you can charge fast on a road trip? China (Just the city of Shanghai has SEVERAL TIMES more public chargers than the ENTIRE United States) - What if you are not even willing to take 10 minutes to charge? China (buy a Nio and use any one of their 2000 plus battery swap stations that will give you a full battery in under 5 minutes) - What if you are STILL not trusting a full BEV and want a PHEV instead. As you say, WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PHEVS? Well basically ALL the PHEVs (and EREVs for that matter) are IN CHINA! BYD sold 130,000 BEVs last month in China. Pretty good right? Even Tesla only sold about 46,000 BEVs in China that month. Care to guess how many PHEVs BYD sold in July? Over 210,000 units. And BYD is merely the biggest PHEV maker in China. Li Auto, Huawei Aito, Changan Deepal, Leapmotor, Geely, Wuling, plus many many other Chinese automakers are also selling PHEVs as fast as they can make them. And those Chinese PHEVs don't just have 25 miles of electric range like a typical PHEV made by a western or Japanese carmaker. They usually have at least 50 miles of electric only range, with some EREVs having over 100 miles of electric range. You are correct that as the auto industry electrifies, consumers will see the PHEV/EREV as the perfect transition vehicle towards pure EVs, and they will buy them in large numbers. ONLY THE CHINESE seem to have realized this, and they are making PHEVs in HUGE numbers. Tesla is literally losing market share in China due to how popular PHEVs are. And now that the Chinese automakers are making so many PHEVs the cost to make one is basically the same as an equivalent ICE vehicle, what will they do next? Flood the world market with them of course. Doug, drive across the border and go check out a BYD King or BYD Shark in Mexico if you get a chance. They are already here right in our backyard. The far future of the automotive industry is BEVs and the near future of the industry is PHEV/EREVs, and the Chinese are FAR FAR in the drivers seat on both of those. There is a good reason the US and Europe are slapping tariffs on Chinese cars, because there is simply no way for a western automaker to make EVs and also PHEVs in both the quantity and price that the Chinese can. All these Chinese automakers are well into the process of squeezing every mainstream western automaker out of their home market, and after that, they will be coming for car markets all over the world.

I spend maybe 10% more time EV road tripping vs a gas car but I'm more relaxed doing it. I've driven the 2300 miles from Ohio to SoCal in 2 days in an EV. No one should be at a charger for an hour on a road trip like Doug said he did. You should plug in at 0 to 20% and unplug at 50 to 80% depending on your car's charging curve and charge just enough to reach the next charging stop. You'll know the amount to charge from by using a route planner like ABRP. Don't know what that is, then look it up. If you're in a hurry then you should drive faster just like you would in a gas car. This isn't rocket surgery people, learn a few basics about EVs and you can go just about anywhere in our fine country. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

The problem really lies in the fact that governments, primarily in European countries, have given EV-owners special priviliges. Germany is a great example at this, people that bought Evs and kept them for atleast 6 months got a 6000 euro tax refund and after that 6 month period was over, people were selling them for what they paid for them when new. Denmark - where I am from - is also a great example. The danish government reduced the - usually very expensive - registration tax for only EVs and some big cities in Denmark even allowed EVs to park for free. If the governments didn't do all of this, then I bet EV sales would never be as high as they are right now.

Doug: "Zero electric cars existed in 2012" Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi i-Miev which launched in 2009/2010: "Are we a joke to you?" Electric cars (even in the modern sense) existed before the Tesla Model S lol.

A plug-in hybrid is absolutely the worst of both worlds when u have to service it. U have all the engine/transmission/fluid lines of a gas car to service and the expensive battery and electric motor to service

The challenge to EVs is that typically, cars are bought new by homeowners, and then sold used to either homeowners or apartment renters. The inconvenience of charging for apartment dwellers can only be overcome by drastically reducing the price of used EVs. So the question is, in the future, will more apartment buildings accommodate Level2 charging?