When YouTubers ask for money

The mistake is people don’t come to YouTube to watch TV shows or Netflix style content, the audience wants to feel a connection with the creators, the more they move away chasing tv style content the more the audience feels disconnected to the creators.

Something I'm not hearing added to this conversation: Smosh has a lot of employees but they post 7 days a week and make some videos with a higher production value but also have videos where they are reading reddit stories and playing board games. I don't think watcher makes enough content let alone balances production value well to handle such a big staff.

Watcher's huge mistake wasn't paywalling content, honestly. The issue just came from "no extra value, 100% extra cost". They aren't Netflix, they aren't Disney, and all they were doing was taking away what used to be free for their viewers. If they'd instead said, "Hey, we're making a new show exclusively over on our website, AND all our current stuff is over there ad free. If you support us over there for this exclusive series, it'll help us fund future series exclusive to the site as well." - It would have gone over so much better.

The tragedy is that I genuinely believe they want to make "television" style content, but we don't live in that world anymore. They can make their stuff as high quality as they want but pursuing that path will always feel like taking a step backwards. They, and all of us here, built an audience of people who have by and large rejected "television" style content. It doesn't meet their needs anymore. Given how often they say it in that single video, I really feel like they would benefit from removing the word "television" from their lexicon and replace it with "Watcher". They need to figure out how to make the best Watcher content and that doesn't always necessarily mean investing more time and money.

You can't act like cable, hire all your friends, get a big studio in LA, lights, cameras, contracted work, etc. and not expect to fire people. Entertainment changes fast, and studios hire and fire fast, you can't expect to give people lifelong careers

making it work is not having 25 employees for a youtube channel

The issue is that NO-ONE asked for tv-quality videos that requires a streaming service budget to produce. Most of Watcher fans are happy with low budget produced videos that feature the personalities that we love. If the choice is between keeping ur 25 employees or loose the brand that funds those 25 people, the choice from a business standpoint should be easier to make… If low product quality is the answer, then that’s what’s gonna deliver.

When I run out of money I'm told I should have anticipated, budgeted, and saved for this. I think most people don't want to give companies any kind of exception. YouTube is still young and volatile, scaling up to 25 employees is just insane to me. This really sounds like a case of simply overhiring and being overly ambitious. At least they dialled it back, but the fact that they thought their first plan was a good one is incredibly tone deaf.

The problem I had with the recent situation is that there really wasn't any value proposition. It felt like they were asking you to support their fundraiser while giving you less than before, and not with an understanding tone.

one thing i wish was mentioned is that watcher’s audience is mostly young adults who arent really in a financial position to pay for more ad services, and that’s also why a lot of fans felt betrayed. knowing the audience is so important, especially when it comes to presenting information

I wish people with businesses would understand the simple truth that: Your business problems are not for your customers to solve The lack of business planning in pretty much all companies today really shows. But no one does a better job at illustrating this than YouTubers.

I think this conversation was missing the perspective of "of course you don't want to fire your friend-employees but if you want to be a business, you have to act like a business" I think a lot of the audience is upset at how it feels like their solution to a problem of their own making (over-hiring for their content/company ability) is asking the audience to bail them out. Of course the advertising landscape can be changing, of course there is instability in income with most online content. But you just hired on more friends right before you said you can't afford YouTube?

I think that when creators pull the curtain back and talk openly about the financial fragility of their business it can prompt the viewer to think about their own financial fragility. People typically don't enjoy being reminded of a poor financial reality and, when that self-acknowledgement is being mirrored back to the viewer by a creator who is ostensibly better off than them, it's easy for a bad taste to be left in the viewer's mouth.

Asking people to pay for something that used to be free will result in 80-90% of them refusing and being mad. It makes sense when the 10-20% makes you more than what you had before.

I think the biggest thing is the tone deafness of not acknowledging the economy we are in. It's called being self-employed and having a small business. There are highs and lows. They just hired too much staff for the low.

The one month content window is a HUGE deal. You’re splitting your community into two where both are not talking about the content at the same time.

What do you think about the Mythical model then? They have content behind a paywall in their tiered subscription model. They make SO much content and varied in production quality. I used to be a 3rd degree member and then decided I couldn’t afford the monthly payment, but I never felt like I was missing out on content or merch opportunities because there is so much outside of the pay wall.

Steve, Ryan and Shane want to make tv quality productions, but they can't afford it, and their fans don't want it.

I just keep thinking about the Vlogbrothers in this; how Hank just went out there and while being a goofy brother of a professional writer helped build internet communities and invented Vidcon and saw the potential of online video in ways others just didn't...it's important to remember the ones who paved the way to allow others to have a chance at greatness while they settled nicely into the background and just keep chugging along, not reaching for the stars - just growing and producing great GREAT content with Crash Course and everything else at Complexly. Hank doesn't get enough credit.

Ok but you can't in the same breath say you're doing this to keep the lights on AND say that you're doing this to expand and start highly expensive series.